by Anonymous | Sep 16, 2025 | Mormon Temple
Bottom Line
Parallels exist, but they don’t establish provenance. The Restoration’s temple arc is documented before and beyond Joseph’s brief Masonry window.
Podcast |
Radio Free Mormon (RFM) |
Episode |
The Trouble With Temples |
Title |
“Temple penalties & signs are almost word-for-word the same as Masonry — in the same sequence.” |
Category |
Temple / Masonry / Historical Claim |
Quote |
“we have sometimes almost word for word the exact same description of those penalties and we have the sequence.” — RFM |
Core Claim |
Verbal and ordered overlap allegedly proves the LDS endowment was copied from Masonic rites. |
Conclusion |
Misleading |
Logical Questions |
- Where is the full side-by-side, source-controlled text showing “word-for-word” identity?
- How do you control for 19th-century variation in Masonic monitors and for non-matches?
|
🔍 Core Finding
Church History Topics openly acknowledges limited similarities while stressing stark differences in content and intent: Masonry is a fraternal moral society; the endowment is a priesthood ordinance centered on Christ, covenants, salvation, and applies to women and men. Kirtland-era temple revelation and practice (D&C 109–110; washings & anointings) significantly predate Joseph’s March 1842 Masonic initiation, undercutting a pure “copying” thesis.
Key Points
- Purpose ≠ Purpose: Fraternal ethics vs. salvific covenants and Christ’s Atonement.
- Pre-1842 Trajectory: Temple theology and rites active years earlier.
- “Sequence” Rhetoric: Without a transparent probability model, “astronomical odds” is just a flourish.
📚 Sources
by Anonymous | Aug 27, 2025 | Mormon Temple
Bottom Line
Resemblance not ≠ copy-paste. The temple’s doctrinal frame and purpose remain distinct.
Podcast |
Radio Free Mormon (RFM) |
Episode |
The Trouble With Temples |
Title |
“The exact same Five Points of Fellowship — including whisper ‘through the veil.’” |
Category |
Temple / Masonry / Ritual Posture |
Quote |
“We did exactly this… it was called the five points of fellowship… [and] through the veil… whispered in your ear…” |
Core Claim |
Shared posture + whisper proves direct ritual transplant from Masonry into the temple. |
Conclusion |
Partial Truth → Overreach |
Logical Questions |
- Does posture similarity entail identity of meaning, purpose, and theology?
- What about documented ancient Christian circle/embrace prayer precedents?
|
🔍 Core Rebuttal
Historic overlaps in posture existed, but LDS sources frame the endowment’s covenantal, Christ-centered aims — not fraternal ethics. Latter-day Saint prayer circles and veil symbolism operate within a creation-fall-Atonement-ascent narrative foreign to Masonic goals. Responsible comparisons weigh both similarities and differences; “exactly” overstates and collapses categories.
Key Points
- Ritual forms can converge across traditions; theological cores may diverge sharply.
- LDS materials acknowledge contact with Masonry while rejecting simple imitation.
📚 Sources
by Anonymous | Aug 19, 2025 | Mormon Temple
Bottom Line
Parallels exist, but they don’t establish provenance. The Restoration’s temple arc is documented before and beyond Joseph’s brief Masonry window.
Podcast |
Radio Free Mormon (RFM) |
Episode |
The Trouble With Temples |
Title |
“Temple penalties & signs are almost word-for-word the same as Masonry — in the same sequence.” |
Category |
Temple / Masonry / Historical Claim |
Quote |
“we have sometimes almost word for word the exact same description of those penalties and we have the sequence.” — RFM |
Core Claim |
Verbal and ordered overlap allegedly proves the LDS endowment was copied from Masonic rites. |
Conclusion |
Misleading |
Logical Questions |
- Where is the full side-by-side, source-controlled text showing “word-for-word” identity?
- How do you control for 19th-century variation in Masonic monitors and for non-matches?
|
🔍 Core Finding
Church History Topics openly acknowledges limited similarities while stressing stark differences in content and intent: Masonry is a fraternal moral society; the endowment is a priesthood ordinance centered on Christ, covenants, salvation, and applies to women and men. Kirtland-era temple revelation and practice (D&C 109–110; washings & anointings) significantly predate Joseph’s March 1842 Masonic initiation, undercutting a pure “copying” thesis.
Key Points
- Purpose ≠ Purpose: Fraternal ethics vs. salvific covenants and Christ’s Atonement.
- Pre-1842 Trajectory: Temple theology and rites active years earlier.
- “Sequence” Rhetoric: Without a transparent probability model, “astronomical odds” is just a flourish.
📚 Sources